Carol Novack is a native New Yorker who has traveled and written around the world. She is a former attorney, holds a master degree in social work, and teaches lyrical fiction writing at The Women’s Studio Center. Carol is the editor of Mad Hatter’s Review. I caught up with Carol in Manhattan this week. DB. Carol, I see you are a New Yorker. By birth? If so, tell me if you’ve lived anywhere else, where, when, why. CN. Yes, David, I was born here and grew up near the ocean in Belle Harbor (Rockaway Beach, Western tip of Longeyeland). I attended University of Rochester (upstate), and soon thereafter moved to Sydney, Australia; lived down under for six years during the early-late '70s. Then I left to travel about Europe, without a destination in mind. I resided on the island of Lesvos for a few months, in Dingwall, Scotland, for a few weeks, and dwelt temporarily in many other locations, including Vienna, Dornach, Paris, Rome, and Oslo. I returned to NYC in 1978, never expecting to stay here long.
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DB. You have a vast education, how did you wind up becoming a writer?
CN. The arts were part of my background during childhood and adolescence. My father was a musicologist -- my parents first met in the music library at Columbia University. When I was a child, I studied modern dance, piano, and clarinet. I also enjoyed painting and read lots of books. I think I wrote my first poems when I was 9 or 10. One started: "I am getting closer and closer to death." Another started: "This crazy world with its rickety racks has gone hardly anywhere on its endless tracks." So anyway, I was Art Editor of my high school magazine and Editor–in-Chief of my university's magazine till I broke the budget in order to publish a professional and innovative looking journal. By that time, I'd settled on writing as my art of first choice, and took as many creative writing classes as allowed. I wrote mainly poetry. While I was in Australia, I wrote and published fictions and prose poems, as well, though my chapbook, "Living Alone without a Dictionary," contained only poems with line breaks (as opposed to prose poems).
As I briefly explain on my blog and my bio at Mad Hatters' Review, I spent the worst, most negatively stressful part of two decades as a criminal defense and constitutional lawyer, writing little besides briefs. My claim to fame was a federal first amendment action I won on behalf of "street" artists. Eventually, I tossed the shingle and pursued a Master's Degree in social work (community organizing). During that time, my Muse resurfaced and I've been writing ever since.
DB. I saw your bio on Facebook, you mention that you’re editor in chief at Mad Hatter’s Review, but that it doesn’t pay. And you mentioned you’re a published author, and that still doesn’t pay either. But obviously writing and teaching writers is what you do now. What’s the attraction?
CN. I love the process of creating my own magazine, a magazine that fits my growing vision, my aesthetics, values, and philosophical perspectives. I enjoy working with the very talented community of art, music, and literary editors, along with my webmaestress, to produce one of the most original and exciting multimedia journals in cyberspace. It's a real challenge. I also love the process of writing, and I get a kick out of teaching, inspiring others to free themselves of stifling writing "rules," showing them how delightful spontaneous experimentation and flow can be, encouraging them to make their words sing. DB. The pieces on your new CD, Inventions I: Fictions, Fusions, & Poems, seem to all be drawn from your personal life. Do you find your relationships with your family and friends to be the greatest influence on your work?
CN. I think that all of us have no choice but to write from our own personal experiences, as well as our unique aesthetic, philosophical, ontological perspectives, our values and needs. None of the pieces in the CD relates actual, "real," or "literal" "experiences" I've had, except "Interview with Self" and "Same As." Most, including that piece, speak of my and our common experiences of life in a metaphorical way. For instance, the first part of "Minnows" relates, in first person, the "story" of a child in painful competition/power struggle with her twin sister. The narrator is a child with a vivid imagination, in contrast to that of her sister, who has a pedestrian outlook on life. The narrator is a child who feels that her parents love her less than they love her sister. Now, I'm an "only child," in "real" life. So obviously, the piece wasn't inspired by my own experiences of sibling rivalry. However, like everyone else, or nearly everyone else, I've experienced jealousy, envy, fits of alienation, self-doubt, depression, the compulsion to be accepted and loved, etc. etc. So the tones of my experiences, the motifs of my emotional and intellectual skirmishes and wars with self within and world without, my relationships with family, friends and "nature," the nausea occasioned by ugly current world events and sick values, the ironically terrifying specter of death (ceasing to "be"), and the varied delights of existence, all emerge in my writing, naturally.
DB. What is it like to live and work as a writer in one of the largest cities in the world?
CN. For me, as a so-called "stream of consciousness" writer, writing is an interior process, a process of conversing with myself, shutting out external and internal noises in order to immerse myself in my unconscious rhythms, feelings, and thoughts, through the natural music of language. The process leads to the discovery of what I've learned during the course of existence, what I "know" without realizing that I know. Right now, as usual, I hear ambulances, car horns, the incessant, intrusive NOISE of this colossal city. But when I'm caught up in the writing process, I'm usually deaf to external sounds. I could never write with music in the background, as some writers do.
As everyone knows, NYC is a major arts city and an arena for competition in every area of life. There are so many fine writers, artists and musicians here. And we all want to be noticed, heard, seen, buzzed about. Acquiring a name, really a senseless endeavor, is mostly a matter of politics and luck. One must constantly self-promote by networking, blogging, publishing in the "right" journals, publishing books (ideally, with big presses), establishing connections with "important" people in media, featuring in quality reading series, getting reviewed and interviewed (ha!), etc. etc. But really, this frenzy extends to the rest of this country. Most people who call themselves writers want to get into this or that journal, publish a best selling book (a memoir, novel or "how to" book), blah blah blah. This is a fiercely competitive city and a fiercely competitive country. Best to ignore the insanity and focus on writing, the most meaningful and satisfying activity in a writer's life. I remember how this city struck me when I returned to actually live in Manhattan, after nearly seven years abroad. I could FEEL the rapid pulse of ambition in the air, the frayed nerve endings of the city's residents. The wind didn't whisper "Maria." It screamed, hysterically, into its cell phone (even before cell phones existed): "Go go go. Do it NOW. Do it NOW! Get it NOW. Get it NOW."
DB. How do you think the diversity present in such a cosmopolitan experience affects your writing?
CN. Good question! I don't think that it does in any conscious way. Everything I experience, consciously and unconsciously, creeps into my writing, in one way or other, I'm sure. This could well include (for instance) the lyrical sounds of conversing Jamaicans and Indians, and the disturbing sight of women wearing purdahs. DB. With your higher degrees coming in the studies of law and social work rather than English or Literature, do you feel you are an insider or an outsider in the publishing process? What has most helped you to accomplish your goals?
CN. I feel like an outsider, particularly as I don't write by the rules taught in MFA programs and popular "how to publish" writing workshops. I want to and do heed my own, evolving voices, rather than write what's expected. But I've always felt like an outsider, bucking "the system" in one way or another. A few years ago, a respected agent contacted me after reading a funny fictional missive of mine, published in an online magazine. We met, and I followed his advice to write a novel based on the characters in the missive. But then I started to write much more offbeat, non-commercial pieces and abandoned the novel, which was boring me. I really should return to it and push myself to complete it. That would be an enormous challenge at this point.
I have a quirky collection of fictions, fusions and poems I've been trying to "sell" to independent presses, a collection no agent would take. Not only is the collection offbeat, it's obviously not a novel. For some reason that I don't understand, novels sell a hell of a lot better than story collections, in this country. Many presses, including Soft Skull, won't even look at collections. I'm not sure what my goals are. Whenever I think of my desire to become well known and lauded, I say to self, don't be ridiculous. I'm part of this society and too ego fragile to fend off its sick, superficial values, also too unenlightened to surrender my intrinsically meaningless ambitions. I'm absurdly ambitious, yet deride myself for owning ambitions in the first place. Really, I should exile my self to the outskirts of Madagascar.
DB. Are you satisfied with what you’ve accomplished in life so far, your publications, the editorship at Mad Hatter’s, your teaching? Are there more long-term goals for you in writing? Do you have more projects in the works?
CN. Satisfied? With tasks and self-transitions in process, nebulous goals not yet if ever met? You're talking to someone with an existentialist-absurdist-atheistic perspective. I don't believe in ultimate, absolute "satisfaction." Though I love to dance to The Rolling Stones song, "I aint got no satisfaction." There's always room for growth, expansion and an attempt to develop deeper compassion, "higher innocence" --- more process, ergo more wisdom, additional revisions, perfections of one's art, at least according to one's expectations of self.
Projects? Yes, I always have projects. I'm collaborating with visual artists, composers, film-makers, and will continue to do so. There are a few embryos of novels in the womb, my second play in slow progress, a prose poem series in progress, a collaborative prose poem series in progress. And my magazine's a creation in progress. It must continue to become – while I can afford to spend time and money on its becoming.
DB. As you work with writers in your classes, what encourages or discourages you about the future of literature?
CN. I have no concept of the future of literature. My main concern is the future of this planet. Obviously, we're extinguishing ourselves, along with seals, polar bears, and other creatures of Earth. And then there are the cycles of nature, propelled or not, or let's say at least hastened by our callous disregard of the poisons we produce and emit. I'm wondering when the tsunamis are going to get us all or most of us all and when the next Ice Age is going to hit. The future of literature is not a topic of concern to me. There will always be conformists, always trends and rules set by the current Establishment, always the "sale" factor, at least as long as the current, obscene form of "capitalism" survives, always the lauding of the mediocre and the trendy. It's up to the individual writer to stretch her/his wings to embrace what language can do in an expansive, personal process. It's up to the writer to refrain from heeding critics and publishers who don't recognize that process, and it's up to the writer to revise, revise and revise, in service to his/her own aesthetic and philosophical visions. One can't "teach" others to be free when freedom of expression isn't an intrinsic value in the society in and to which they're bound. One can only suggest ways to expand personal styles of expression and means to tap into innate flow.
DB. Now this current publication, the CD, do you feel that audio is the format that verse is going to be distributed in now? Is this the cutting edge?
CN. I think that words written to be spoken and heard, whether deemed "verse" or "prose," should be spoken and heard. Many if not most writers don't create with their ears. Many if not most editors and publishers don't read with their ears. From what I hear and see, MFA programs and how to write and publish workshops don't focus on the sonic and imagistic beauty of language. I was brought up with classical music in my house, artworks on the walls. Rhythm and sound are more important to me than plot and character development. Magical, surprising images are essential parts of writing to me. S-called "spoken word" CD's (as opposed to "audio-books") are not the way to go for writers consumed by the importance of plot, arc, so-called "character development," and "resolution" or "epiphany," over language. They're also not appropriate vehicles for writers who can't recite their works, unless of course, they hire an actor to recite them. A CD is a wonderful, immediate vehicle to reach an online audience and a modest number of purchasers. More journals, but still relatively few, are including or inviting audio presentations of prose and poetry. I think that eventually, "spoken word" CD's will become a "wave," or should I say "wav."
DB. The music business has really been shaken up with the proliferation of bands on the internet. Do you think that having audio CD’s like Inventions I: Fictions, Fusions & Poems could have that kind of effect for verse?
CN. Possibly. "Spoken word" CD's, like self-published print and e-books, may begin to proliferate on the Internet. Most, I predict, will be poetry CD's; most will not be collaborative creations. So bands proliferate. They were proliferating before the emergence of the Internet and the I-pod. Everyone digs music; comparatively few dig lyrical prose and well crafted poetry. How many bands are original, unique, wave breaking, seductive? How many "spoken word" CD's will rise to that level? A writer's CD can only be as good as the verse or prose it's presenting, coupled with the aural presentation of the writing. That's not easy. I think of my first (this) CD as an experiment. I may completely revise the presentation of some of the recitations in my second audio "printing" (burning); I would like nearly all of them to have audio elements. The complimentary audio and musical affects by my collaborators, Benjamin Rush Miller and Don C. Meyer enhance the recitations. And I may (someday) record Inventions II, III, IV, etc. It's fun! Maybe readers who love my writings will buy my CD. But a hell of a lot more people will buy CD's by pop, slam, hip-hop poets. They're "in the business." I'd be foolish to think of myself in that vein.
DB. What else do you see happening to the publishing of literature, especially short stories and verse? Anything that’s going to really shake the publishing business up?
CN. I'm really not that good at predicting the future other than speaking of doom and gloom. But I will say that online publishing is already altering, and will continue to alter the presentation and accessibility of literature as a whole. Online journals and e-books are accessible to global readers who can afford computers and Internet service. Print magazines, in contrast, are generally available to a comparatively (very) small number of subscribers and others who buy separate issues, if they happen to be available at a bookstore in one's hood. Even in NYC, it's hard to find a bookstore that sells more than a modest number of literary journals. As for books in print, most people either buy them online or wander into big stores like B & N to purchase (principally) best selling titles or otherwise well-plugged and distributed books. And most, even big commercial presses don't plug their authors as they used to do. So it's up to writers to expend much time and money on self-promotion, as I've said above.
In addition, online publishing is very slowly beginning to the alter the presentation and therefore the experience (or experiencing) of literature by introducing audio, visual, and collaborative elements incapable of being produced in print. Technical advances have allowed online journals to present art, music, recitations, audio and visual collages, as well as animations/video's, on its pages. Online journals may also offer and encourage collaborative projects among visual artists, composers and writers. My "multimedia" e-journal could never replicate itself in print in a meaningful way. Each poem and prose piece is wedded to (usually) custom-made audio and art. While the reader is not forced to listen to the audio and view the art, while reading the work, we present the possibility of experiencing all three elements as a whole. It would be nice to also offer literature in animation with visuals and music or recitation, which of course, has been done. I'm hoping to include collaborative animations in the near future.
I've already mentioned the problem with short stories. Many presses don't want to publish them. It seems that more independent presses are willing to publish poetry than short story collections; I won't swear to that, but that appears to be the case. On the other hand, online journals specialize in publishing poetry and short fiction. Short works lend themselves to online presentation and reading. Imagine reading a novella or novel on your computer. Well, ok, maybe if you have a reasonable amount of money for paper and printer ink and don't mind printing out a few hundred pages. Also factor in short attention spans and scant relaxation time. If you get home from work late, without much time for winding down (not to mention delighting in dinner as a wildly hedonistic experience) before bed, you don't have much time to open a book and read more than a few pages before nodding off, do you? We live ridiculously fast paced, stressful lives, with few moments for community building, intimacy development, reflection, and expansion. Well, at least in big cities like New York. Oh well. Blah blah blah. Time for "summer" reading: what books should I read while I'm on vacation?
DB. Where can people order your CD?
CN. Here via Pay Pal. They may listen to a few of the tracks at no charge at The Mad Hatter Carollers DB. And where can the view the Mad Hatter’s Review? CN. At The Mad Hatter's Review DB. Thanks, Carol. Good luck with all your work. CN. Thanks, Dave. Continued kudos to you for your own hard work as a publisher of integrity and a writer, as well!
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Inventions I: Fictions, Fusions & Poems Written and Recorded by Carol Novack Review by David Blaine Carol Novack’s new CD, Inventions I: Fictions, Fusions & Poems, is an interesting collection of vignettes, read by the author herself. Ms. Novack draws from a kaleidoscope of personal experience to share stories that we can all relate to: Life’s uncertainties, sibling rivalries, parental relationships (from childhood to adulthood) and the dating game, just to mention a few. In one sketch, Same As, Carol reads a dialogue between an adult and her hard-of hearing mother. It was so reminiscent of my own experience, I found it frustrating to listen to. But at the same time, it was so true to life that it was hilarious. In another reading, Blah Blah, we hear the harrowing tale of a dysfunctional first person narrator stuck caring for the children of her imprisoned boyfriend. Said narrator ends up in a toilet stall drinking shots of tequila to escape the tortuous escapades of said children. And it is also great fun. Trust me on it. It would be tough to pigeon hole these readings as one particular genre or another. I’d call them prose poems, but that isn’t important at all. They are all well written pieces and they are read well too. If I had one criticism it might be the lack of accompaniment. Several pieces do have either music or synthesized sound as a background, but most are a cappella. Still, with this form so fresh and unexplored, that isn’t really so much a criticism as an observation. Ms. Novack has stepped out to create something fresh and original. If you are ready for something of that order, this could well be it.
Last update : 04-07-2007 11:39
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By: Carol NovaCK (Guest) on 04-07-2007 11:23