I have been communicating with Mr Pat King since GOW!, when he published some of my short stories. When I had the original idea for this series of conversations/interviews, Pat asked me if I wanted to publish it here. On OW!. So, he’s to blame. Okay. He then suggested that I interview his brother, David, too. Apparently, David has done his fair share of travelling and experiencing life. I said, why not do them together. He said, cool. So, here we are. Remember, it’s all his fault.
Ladies & Germs, I give you, The King Brothers.

JM – So, Baltimore.
WTF do I know about Baltimore?
John Waters, the film director and his colourful cast of characters. That’s it.
He certainly paints a pretty picture of the place.

Is it as full of freaks as he describes it?
What lends a place to be like this?

PK – Yes, it’s full of freaks, but not always like he describes it! I once overheard a man in a coffeehouse here say, “Baltimore has more crazy people per square mile than any other city in America.” I don’t know if that’s true, but, living here gives you the feeling that it might be true, which is good enough for me.
I’ve only actually been in the city limits for less than a year, though. So I’m still getting to know the city. Dave and I are actually from a bunch of places but the two we grew up in most were Upstate NY and Birmingham, Alabama.

So Jason, what’s it like living near Paris? Americans have a very romantic view of the place. When I think of Paris I think of Henry Miller, Artaud, Jarry. A different kind of romantic, I think.
And Dave, you keep wandering about the country. Do you think you’ll ever find a place to settle down?

JM – Like all capital cities, Paris thinks that it and only it exists. Same with London, Toyko, Bangkok etc, and so a massive egoism goes hand in hand with it. And, you know, the buildings are pleasant. But I find there to be an almighty general stilfing of creativity here. They are suspicious of anything new. Of change. Strange but true. The average French mentality seems to be one of conformity and comfort. People here are very politically defined. I wonder if that may be the reason why. I have always had a hard time with politics and art.

DK – For myself I know very little of Baltimore other than driving to the harbor, which is the touristy place to go. I’ve passed through the red light district once which I think Baltimore may be one of the few U.S cities that can say they truly have a red light district.
As for me ever settling down? Well I hope so. I’ve been from one coast to the next and lived in small towns and large cities. It has been a trip truly worth living and I’m glad I’ve been all over. This life is too short to never venture out and explore what it has for us.

JM – Damn those red light districts …

How’re you fellas feeling about this decade, what with the financial(or virtual) crisis and then the economic (or real) one?

Is it really noticable where you are?

Here in France, things such as banks, lending, and jobs are really well regulated and protected. I mean, it takes at least three months to make anyone redundant. And they get 70% of their salary for two years paid by the fucking government! (as well as five weeks paid holidays …) The national debt, of course, is another issue entirely.

DK – I still spend and work just like I have always done.
Who gives a shit if you lose your job?
There are still a million more out there. I think too many people are too proud and refuse to do something that is below them. I say shut up and flip some damn burgers, save money, rely on yourself and smile. Too much scare tactics from the media that’s what I say. Work hard play hard you know the same old cliches. Just ignore the financial crisis and eventually it will all go away. Right?

JM – “rely on yourself and smile”
David, you are a man after my own heart. And as for doing shitty jobs in shitty times, absolutely. You do what you have to do to get through and it is always fun to prove the bastards wrong! Hell, if it all goes wrong, we are going to die one day anyway.
There’s a popular T-shirt slogan in England:
Drink beer. smoke tabs. (cigarettes)
You could be hit by a bus tomorrow.

PK – What are tabs? I like tabs of acid. And the red light district….heh…let us not go there and dredge up pre-marital memories of money I could have saved…..
Well, I like “Rely on yourself and smile too,” and that really seems to sum Dave up. I wish I could be that way. Some days I’m filled with joy and others, I’m staring into the void. I wish I could enjoy life as much as David.
Since I’m about to have my mind melted on mushrooms, I think it might be a good idea to talk about drugs. What do you guys think about them? I think we’re all reasonably far away from those years where they consumed our entire waking lives, so we have a better perspective on it. Personally, I’ve always liked psychedelics but I’ve always been annoyed at those spiritual hippie types who think psychedelics open us to a new “spiritual” dimension. I remember a friend once telling me that he “saw god by the stop sign.” I remember thinking that he should probably just relax and have some fun.

JM - “Psychedelic” comes from the Greek for “mind/soul revealing” and I think that’s what such drugs do. I’m with Pat, always liked tripping, wasn’t so much into the uppers or downers. Although the best trip I ever had was on pure Special K smuggled in from Cambodia(at the time, you could buy it in pharmacies over there), it was so good that I do not think I would ever try it again.
Put it this way, I became snow. *ahem*
I believe that ALL drugs should be legalized, but that’s a different debate.

DK - Well you know me Pat. I’m always a pretty open minded guy. Drugs I believe are everyone’s choice to pursue or not to pursue. Sort of like happiness. Sorry had to throw that in there. I am glad that the days of getting high and seeing crazy acid trips are over. Yet I still don’t mind a good drink or a good set of shrooms every now and then. My body does not fix itself so fast as the good old days of being a teenager. And drugs definitely cannot find god for you cause I’ve looked everywhere and I don’t think he’s gonna show up.

PK – Ha! Maybe you need to telegraph him. Maybe he hasn’t caught up to modern technology!

DK – Well on that same note what is your take on spirituallity for the modern world? Does it have a place or is god old and in need of replacing?
Do we lose our morality without some “other being” guiding us?

JM – As for the “god” thing, well, it’s like the graffiti:
God is dead – Nietzsche.
Nietzsche is dead – God.
There is more and more scientific evidence that shows that the religious or spiritual impulse is evolutionarily hard-wired into us. Those with religion do tend to live longer. We are trapped with it. This does not mean that it is evidence for a creator being, look at Buddhism or Jainism, they are so-called religions without a god. And, no, we do not lose our “morality” if we have no god. Again, it is hard-wired into us.
What I do think is that every society needs a mythology, something that has a way of explaining things metaphorically, something that can unify. Myths are more “spiritually” truthful than science.
Our obsession with truth is a Christian obsession. That’s why they fucked themselves, they believe that everything in their holy book is historical fact instead of a myth designed to guide.

DK - I was having this same conversation with my wife about god and morality. That’s why I asked. I tend to agree with you Jason that we have our morals hard-wired into us. How else would people from opposite sides of the world that have never met still have the same fundamental morals?

But I tend to see spirituality as a necessary part of our existence. Not to explain why we are here because why should you care, you are already here, but to guide us and strengthen our moral character.
Everyone needs a good drug every now and then. So legalize em and let people be people. As long as you do no harm to another person you should be able to do as you please.

JM – I find it very difficult to use words like religion or spirituality without coming out in a rash. My old man was/is very religious and orthodox religion has always been a bit of sore point with me. I lost my faith when I was eight.
This does not mean I reject everything. Atheists can be as rigid and dull as believers. I mean, I’ve had what I describe as “numinous” experiences. I just go my own way with it. Although I do believe that we are animals and therefore our society’s (humanistic) hubris really pisses me off.

PK - Dave, I didn’t know that about you. I thought you were a good ol’ atheist. Must have been having the kids, eh?

I think it would be fun to create a religion. Like, maybe I write a book and some culture somewhere decides that it’s actually a literal revelation from God. Yes, I think I would like that.
Other than that, I’m basically a materialist. There’s no evidence that anything exists beyond the material world, ghost hunting shows excluded, of course.

So, what was the last book you guys read that you just couldn’t put down?

JM - That would be “Haunted”, the short story collection by Chuck Palanhuik.
That guy is one sick and frighteningly intelligent puppy.
A real iconoclast.

DK – It’s kinda funny but I’m really into Taekwondo right now and I keep reading biographies and histories of Taekwondo. The little things that keep us entertained. I don’t know the last time I read anything other than non fiction. My main three topics lately have been Zen, Martial Arts, and Libertarianism. I think that about sums up my daily thoughts.

JM - David,
Get your hands on 101 Zen Stories collected by Paul Reps, it’ll tell more about Zen than any academic book can.
I used to visit Zen monasteries in Britain and Japan, just to go and talk with the monks and meditate. I’ve been practising on and off for nigh on twenty years. I ain’t a Buddhist and I’m still one pissed off curmudgeon but it seems to … give me some equilibrium. Some time to myself.
Ain’t found enlightenment yet though … maybe it’s in my boot.

And you Pat?

PK – I just finished reading Colin Wilson’s book, Super Consciousness. It’s sort of a short summation (only 200 pages, which is extremely short for him) of his philosophy. I can’t get into his supernatural/occult stuff, but I think he’s on to something with the whole peak experiences thing, and especially his observations about the “robot world” that most people live in. I tore through that book in two days, which is really fast for me since I’m a pretty slow reader.

Dave, I’m curious: you’re obviously an articulate guy, how come you’ve never written anything? I think you’d be good at it.

DK – I think that I just lose my train of thought too quickly. My mind wanders and my focus goes in thirty different directions. Plus the kids are loud. Maybe one of these days I’ll write but for now I prefer to immerse myself in someone else’s writing and just read.

JM - One last question, fellows,
It seems like every dose of hard times brings with it a renaissance of culture. Where do you think it’s coming from this time around?

And thanks be to you.

PK – Thank you, Jason. This has been fun.
Like Surrealism, the Beats, etc, my hope is that the new culture will come from the ground up. Now, that means that there will be plenty of sell out, misinterpretation and mindlessness. But I think it will affect the culture positively. If it comes to pass. I think the time is right, Jason for guys like me and you and Tim Hall. Very soon. At least I hope. That would be nice.

DK – Yes, I too had an enjoyable time talking with both of you.
I do not know where this renaissance will come from but I too hope that it spawns from the underground. From people who truly love the arts and the world and hope to share their thoughts with the world. I am envious of those who can start a moment for no other reason than to see the world grow and move forward. So where ever it starts be a part of it and share your passion.

Pat King’s collection of short stories can be bought here : THEREDNECKKAFKAANDOTHERSTORIES

David LaBounty has written three novels. He writes the kind of novels that you wish you could write, if only you had any talent. His stories are tough and tragic. Each paragraph is tense and minimalist, like Chuck Palahniuk dancing the tango with Hubert Selby Jr in someone’s nightmare. His latest novel is titled Affulenza.

I am very happy to feature him in the first CFGKW.

JM – Hey David!

Let’s start with something simple.

What do you consider to have been the biggest influences/inspirations in your life?
Not just with your writing but your life in general?

DLB – My sons. The first cold beer as it enters the stomach and in a few moments later the brain. All the rock and roll I’ve listened to over and over again. Raymond Carver. Charles Bukowski. The parade of ordinary and desperate people I deal with at work each and every day. My past, the time in the service, in Nevada.

I think geography is important, the places where you’ve been and the people you’ve met. I would guess from your writing that the same holds true for you Jason, am I correct?

JM – Yeah, definitely.
For my sins.
They say that travel broadens the mind. I am not so sure if that is necessarily a good thing. It depends what the place decides to teach you. If you live somewhere like Bangkok for five years, it certainly does, (how shall I say?), change your outlook on life and how it is lived and that translates into something when the creative process kicks in. Asia, Africa, Europe, Blighty, it all gets fucking jumbled in the mix. A cocktail of bitterness and regret with a dash of blood and a sweet aftertaste to boot.

What has attracted you to the places that you have written about?

DLB – You know, I generally do set my work in places I know. Michigan where I’ve lived most of my life. Nevada as I spent some time there way back when working in a gold mine and later for a newspaper. I was stationed in Scotland for two years while I was in the Navy. I will never set a story in Portland Oregon because I’ve never been there. I’ve lived a lot of places, traveled to even more and I may not have been in Scotland or Nevada the longest but I was most affected by them.

I went through a life-changing process.

In Scotland I went from a pimply teenager to a twenty-something who lifted weights and read existential literature and I thought I was real bad-ass. I also fell in love there, a lot, and made a lot of friends, some of whom I still keep in touch with 20 years later. I’ve also lived in the comfortable north shore suburbs of Chicago, but they’re nice, not really worth writing about at all.

When writing, do you find yourself summoning up people and places from your past, or are you creating them as you go?

JM – With the first book, well, almost all of those characters were based on real people. Friends, enemies, idiots met and vanquished.

Some of my shorter stories have been people, some real, some imagined (which means that they come from somewhere deep inside me) put in extreme situations, often madness. Another wee obsession of mine.

Where did the idea for your novel, Affluenza, come from?

Was it just a case of seeing the system around you begin to crack and collapse?

DLB - Well, some of Affluenza came from events in my personal life and other people I know. People who let their lifestyle get away from their income. It’s a very real problem and art does indeed imitate life. The system is indeed collapsing or has already collapsed, no one is extending credit the way they used to. The main character in Affluenza, Charles Dash, is certainly someone I don’t know. Dash has absolutely no meaning in his life, the only thing that gives him pleasure is buying things, and all the events in his life are marked by what he bought (first job a car, a small house upon getting married, a bigger house upon having children).

And I know Confessions of a Black Dog is partially autobiographical, but where did the idea come from, and is writing about yourself sort of cathartic?

JM – Ahhh …
Keeps the demons from the door and me off the streets. Literally.
Seems like your personal America, (maybe everyone has their own), is at the moment both a joyful and incredibly bleak place to live.

How do you see the future of your surroundings?

DLB – I used to write speculative fiction. One could call it science fiction. Not really my bag but I thought I could short-cut my way to fame and fortune by going the genre route but I was foolish to think that. Affluenza is straight literary fiction but there are elements of dystopic fiction in it as maybe, as a society, we’ve already achieved some sort of dystopia by so many people living beyond their means and all of a sudden we find ourselves living in the Brave New World, to a point. I think things can only get better and that’s what I do find joyful about my personal America, a country I really do love.

You’ve had a bit of a vagabond existence, certainly as a writer, do you feel bound by your current or native country to portray it in a certain light? Positive or negative.

JM – Well, I certainly do not feel bound by any loyalty to any country. But we are, as the cliché goes, a product of our enviroment to a certain extent. This filters our world view and our views of other cultures.
I have learnt that you can’t meddle in other (so-called developing) cultures. You can’t and shouldn’t help. They will despise you for it in the end.
I tend to agree with you about the dystopian aspects of our global society. I have a lot of fatalistic tendencies mixed in with a large dose of misanthropy. This probably peppers my view, more than anything else.

David, one last question …

I know for a fact that you, like me, are a big Cormac McCarthy fan.
It was the subject of our first contact, I believe …

Which would be your favourite novel?
Why?
What does he do with the word that others can’t?

DLB – My favorite would be The Road.

A complex story told simply, the characters laid hauntingly bare. He is able to write a novel of nothing but prose, beautiful prose. Quite unique, in my opinion.

JM – David, it’s been an absolute honour, mate.
All the best with the new book.

David LaBounty’s work can be found @ HERE

His novels can be bought HERE