“They are all human. Sometimes ugly, vile, quizzical, loving, but always indelibly human”: an interview with Mel Bosworth and xTx

Pat King interviews Mel Bosworth and xTx about their collaborative piece, Shudder Pageant. The origin, the process, and the hope.

Pat King: Cool. Soooo….I’d like to start this interview the same way I started my last one. I want to ask you two where you live and what the lit scene is like. So I guess that’s a question. Here’s a question mark, just to be official:?

Mel Bosworth: Hey-oh, Pat! First off, thanks for taking the time to play with us. You’re a good and a brave man.

I live in western Massachusetts in a little town surrounded by colleges, so the influx of art and literature is pretty decent. There’s always something going on (readings, shows, etc.) and I was lucky enough to catch Blake Butler, Sam Ligon, and Robert Lopez recently at an obscure bookstore out on the boonies. There were maybe a dozen or so people there. They served snacks. It was pretty awesome.

xtx: Hi Pat.

First of all, nice to meet you. Thank you for interviewing us. I apologize in advance for any stupid things I might say.

I live in Southern California. I will be honest and say that I know nothing about the ‘lit scene’ here. I figure there must be one, but I am not a part of it. It’s like high school all over again. Sob.

Pat King: Cool. Well, then the next thing I’d like to know is how you two found each other and why you decided to collaborate on this project.

xtx: I forget who stalked who first, but we found each other through our writing at various online publications. I totally dug Mel’s stuff and we ended up becoming email buddies.

Shortly thereafter Brandi Wells offered up a writing contest and I think Mel had the idea to submit something written by the both of us. It was a kooky little ditty called “Flippant” and you can read it at the illustrious Brandi Wells Review. (We won, but so did everyone who entered. haha!)

We had fun doing it and knew we wanted to try it again sometime. A few months went by and we thought we’d give it another go, but maybe put a little more work into it, come up with something bigger. That’s where the project started.

How am I doing on this Mel? Does that sound about right?

Mel Bosworth: Yeah yeah. That sounds about right to me. Mutual admiration leading to mutual stalkage, Brandi Wells contest….yeah. We had actually set a 500 word limit on the piece for Brandi, and when we started working on this project, we didn’t really want to set any limits. I think the idea that we’d both have a bit more room to flex was a big motivator for this collaboration. X could be X, I could be me, and we’d see how well we could sew it all together.

Pat King: Well, it was sewn together quite seamlessly, I think. The whole thing was written in one voice. I’m interested in the technical side of this. What was your writing process like? How did you blend it all together? What was the editing process like? I guess that was a bunch of questions but I guess it all boils down to me asking you if you can take us through the process…

Mel Bosworth: Great questions, Pat. The process….The process…

Well, we began with an ending in mind, or at least an idea of where things would end. Okay, it was a line, one line, that last line. Our job was to get to that line the best way we could. Speaking for myself, I try to plot out a story by working backwards. Sometimes. Not all the time. It’s like having the punchline of a joke, and then figuring out how to make that punchline work. Does the joke work here? I don’t know. You tell me.

Since X had started out the piece for our Brandi collaboration, she was nice enough to give me the wheel to start this one. And then we passed the wheel back and forth. Sometimes we each wrote entire chapters, sometimes we picked up where the other left off. We tried to smooth things as we went along in order to better see where it was headed, to better reach that punchline. As the editing progressed, a lot of our segments bled into each other, often within individual sentences. We were very aware of wanting the work to read seamlessly, so if you hear it as one voice that’s a great compliment to what we were trying to achieve.

I’d also like to add that the only way it could have been achieved was through trust and willingness. X is a great writing partner and a great communicator. We sounded out a lot of ideas as we went along, but we never really had an outline, just a destination. It gave us a lot of room to move. Sure, it can be dangerous, but if you trust your writing partner and if you trust the story, things will grow on their own. Our job then as writers is to give those blossoms the best love and attention we can.

…I now pass the wheel over to X.

xtx: This interview is funny as it’s pretty similar to how we wrote Shudder Pageant. Mel went, I went, Mel went, I went and so on. Let’s do it again Mel!!!! I miss this! Ha!

Sorry…

Like Mel said, we knew where we were going; “She was milk; white and simple.” But that was all. We had no story, no plan, no outline. Beginning with a last line and writing to meet that line was something I had never, ever done. I usually start with a first line and it flows from there. Mel was challenging me already. (Which was great, don’t get me wrong.)

We knew we wanted to keep an even tone throughout, so I’m glad you felt it was seamless.

Every time I got Mel’s contribution in my inbox, my heart would palpitate a little, knowing that, fuck, now I have to drive. What is he giving me? Will I know where he wants to go? Will I be able to take it somewhere? Will I be able to move it along? Will he like where I’m taking it? Will he understand where I’m taking it? There is a lot more responsibility when you are writing with someone than when you are just writing solo. You aren’t just accountable to yourself, but to another, so there is additional pressure. (Well, at least that’s how I felt. I can’t speak for Mel.) You don’t want to let the other down.

I’d hunker down; read the entire thing from the beginning through what he’d provided and then see where I thought it should go or what I could add. If I felt there were changes to be made on his parts, I would, at first, suggest them, and then by the end we would just make the changes without asking the other. I think this was due to our trust that was building with each pass. It felt good.

We tried to take no more than a week for each of our “turns”. It was a long process. I learned a lot from it.

Pat King: So I guess what happened, then is that you polished your sections before you sent the rest to the other person? Or was it all revised at the end and what you sent each other basically a first draft? Did the order you wrote the pieces in end up being the final order or did you mix them around? Because it’s interesting how you play with time in this piece. It feels like the beginning and the ending would have to be the same, but the middle parts you could mix up a bit, I think.

xtx: The answer to all of your questions is yes and no. I believe we’d do our best to polish our sections before sending to the other, but I think each of us knew the other would have their hand at polishing once the section fell into our hands. I think ‘tweaking’ one another’s pieces helped bring the seamlessness you spoke of earlier. While there are some sections that are entirely Mel’s or mine, I think most of them have has sprinklings of both of us.

Also, because we weren’t entirely sure where we were going, every so often we’d have to tweak a piece so it would fit into where the story began to go.

I think, for the most part, the order we wrote them in ended up being the final, but I have to admit that towards the end, it got dicey. We had all these ‘parts’ that needed to fit together and get our characters to the car crash the story started with. Luckily Mel took it upon himself to wrap all the little stories together to get our characters to the ending we had in mind.

Mel, do I have that right? Go.

Mel Bosworth: Nailed it, buddy. Linear but not so linear middle (but hopefully easily(ish)understandable) bookended by a single scene, also hopefully making a circle of sorts.

The time play was a concern, but we strove for clarity that (again, hopefully) came through after on-site and later final revisions.

I’ll shut up now. Good answer, X.

Pat King: So whose idea was it to include pictures? Who took the pictures? Did you decide together which pictures should illustrate a particular chapter?

Mel Bosworth: Oh, man. The PICTURES!

Well, to be honest, I’m not actually sure who came up with the idea for pictures. I think once we decided that we were going to self-publish the collaboration, it opened up some new ideas–the pictures being one, and later the mp3.

We both dumped a handful of pictures into the pot, and then discussed which would work best for each chapter. By this point in the project, I think it’s safe to say we were both on the same page(more or less), so the decisions came easy.

Since we didn’t credit individual pictures, you’ll have to guess who shot what. You win a Shudder Pageant t-shirt if you guess correctly. (Sheeiiit, you’ve already earned one, Pat, so no worries.)

….I now pass the mic to DJ xTx.

xtx: I am 99% sure it was Mel who suggested the pictures. Actually, Mel first suggested that maybe we could draw shit. I was like, “So, a multitude of stick figures okay with you?” and maybe that’s when it moved to pictures. (Thank GOD!)

Pat King: That’s really cool. Again, I would have thought that just one of you took the pictures, because they also seem to share a single “voice.” So after the pictures you decided to do the audio? What was that like? Who put it all together? I have to say, I really like the narrator’s voice changing from a man to a woman.

xtx: It is really neat to hear you saying everything, pictures included, have cohesion. It was our goal. Sweet!

Again, Mel’s idea about the audio; Mel brought the “pageant” to Shudder Pageant. You should’ve seen him in his sequined gown; his beard sparkled in the spotlight. That bouquet of roses draped in his gloved arms as he walked down the runway waving…. A vision.

We had 12 chapters so I think we ended up splitting the reading of chapters as even/odd. I purposely picked odd so that Mel would have to read the chapter that had ass fucking in it.

I would record a chapter and then send it off to Mel who put it all together. I didn’t have a mic so my audios have a buzz we couldn’t get rid of. Mel did his best (thanks Mel!) to even the different audios out so that it wouldn’t be such an annoyance to the listener. For being two coasts apart, working with basic tools, and never having done this before, I think he did an amazing job.

Two contributors, two voices. It couldn’t be any other way.

Mel Bosworth: Well said, X. With the tools we had and the limited know-how, I think we did okay. Next time we’ll be even stronger.

And I agree with X that it is really nice to hear that you felt the work was very cohesive, Pat. Thank you for that. From the text to the photos to the audio, everything was split right down the middle. That it comes across to the reader as one voice/vision means we did something right.

And for the record, I’d like to add that the chapter in which one of our characters engages in forcible sodomy was very difficult for me to read. It might have been easier had I written that chapter, and in a sense purged myself of it, but it just goes to show how unflinching and fearless the writing of xTx can be. Her words linger long after I’ve read them.

xtx: OMG. I didn’t think you would actually try to pin the assfucking chapter on me IN PUBLIC! LOL! You are a dirty fucker Mel Bosworth… a dirty dirty underhanded little bearded mothereffer!!!

(Note to readers: EVERY DIRTY PIECE IN S.P. WAS PENNED BY MEL BOSWORTH! XTX TOOK THE HIGH ROAD FOR ONCE! MY FINGERS TO GOD’S EARS! DON’T BELIEVE ANYTHING HE SAYS!)

Mel Bosworth: TAKE YOUR MEDICINE, WOMAN!

Sorry, Pat. She gets crazy sometimes.

Please carry on.

xtx: OMG Pat! Don’t let the beard fool you, Mel Bosworth is an underhanded, pin-the-dirty-stuff-on-the-typically-dirty-writer, scoundrel.

Why I oughta……

Pat King: Hmmm….weeeelll, I guess the author of the assfucking scene will have to remain a mystery for now. That’s too bad because it’s one of the best chapters in the book. It’s so sad and angry inhuman…..horrible, hard to read, very….real….it’s weird too because the two characters in the assfucking scene have become terribly alienated from themselves and other people that the love of their friends can’t even reach them anymore. But, at the same time, there is hardly a scene where the main character’s friends aren’t by his side, even when they don’t particularly want to be. I think the story wonderfully captures the complex dance of cleaving and repulsion that comes with loving someone, whether it is an intimate relationship or a good friend. I think that, as writers, we also often have similar feelings toward our characters, who sometimes disappoint us or make us proud or make us ashamed. I’m wondering how your feelings toward these characters evolved as the writing of the piece progressed.

Mel Bosworth: Excellent insights, Pat. Damn.

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of what these characters stand for and who they are. There’s definitely a hierarchy of purity, Sophie being at the top. Jacob represents a kind of skewed every man, and then there’s Cody sucking dirt at the bottom. There’s a sickness that permeates them all, and it’s this sickness that binds them together. I believe they’re not unlike passengers on a plane that’s plummeting toward the ocean. Eyes are closed and hands are held as they wait for the inevitable. The only difference with this set of characters is that the plane is their collective life and the length of the dive is prolonged. They can see the crash coming, but are committed to a tunnel locked with love, loyalty, and, in Cody’s case, grotesque hope.

As the story and the characters progressed, I suppose the initial empathy I viewed them with deepened. They are all young and flawed, trying to hold something together that won’t sit still. To me, Sophie and Jacob showed themselves to be the grudging parents of the lost child in Cody. And as they fumble, as parents do, to help their child, there is also an underlying current of a husband who doesn’t fully understand his wife. It’s only at the very end, through the dying eyes of Jacob, that we discover what Sophie truly is: a mother.

The inner turmoil that already exists within these characters is compounded by something much larger than themselves: there is a war going on, and its violence is touching them in ways they can’t comprehend. Ultimately, it tears them apart. Had these characters been presented as adults, I doubt their reactions would have been any different. In that sense, I have nothing but compassion for them. They are all human. Sometimes ugly, vile, quizzical, loving, but always indelibly human.

And for that, I suppose I loved them, from beginning to end.

….all yours, X.

xtx: What Mel said and

As far as the progression of my feelings towards the characters went, for me, I grew to mostly love them, flaws included. I’m not sure how a writer cannot end up loving their characters, even ones that they might have intended to hate, so maybe I’m not saying anything new here.

Cody probably was the one character who garnered the biggest variety of feelings from me. I first saw him as a sweet lost child with a sort of cute innocence, and then later as someone who was righteously astray but on his way down and then ultimately as someone who has been lost entirely with little hope of resurrection. I started to resent the burden he had become to his friends. As Jacob voiced it in the ninth chapter, “He crawled back to me, but I was having none of it either. His walls were too thin now. Mine too were beginning to lessen.” Mine were too. I was getting tired of his friends always having to save him, at their expense, which was ultimately what ended up happening.

I had the most hope for Jacob. I liked watching the bond between him and Sophie grow. I feel sad there can be nothing more with them.

And now I would like to reluctantly admit that I wrote the assfucking scene.

Pat King: Well, thanks ya’ll. I’ve really enjoyed interviewing the two of you. One last question: what’s in your creative futures, both collaborative and individually?

xtx: Creative future? Well, right now I’ve been pimping my e-book, “Nobody Trusts a Black Magician” available for FREE at nonpress (http://notapunkrockpress.com/titles.html), and anyone can visit my blog at www.notimetosayit.com to check out when I have new zine stuff out.

Collaboratively? I think we discussed maybe by sometime early next year taking another stab at something. If we are done being sick of each other by then, that is. heh.

Thanks for the interview Pat. Appreciate you taking the time for us. It’s been fun.

Mel Bosworth: Deep derp back at you, Pat. Thank you. This interview was very fun.

In my creative future I see a small chapbook from Folded Word Press called “When the Cats Razzed the Chickens & other stories.” It’ll be out around the holidays, and available as an e-book and a handcrafted artifact. I’m sure I’ll be making all the noise I can about it very soon. (EDIT: “When the Cats Razzed the Chickens & other stories” is available now. Go here for more info).

People can always drop in at my bloggy blog to stay abreast of my nonsense: http://eddiesocko.blogspot.com/

As far as a collaborative future with xTx, I see the tentatively titled “I Love My Muskrat” coming out sometime next year. It’s going to be a comedy. I should probably run this idea by her first.

Visit:
Mel Bosworth
xTx

Read:
Shudder Pageant