With Jason Michel
I have been communicating with Mr Pat King since GOW!, when he published some of my short stories. When I had the original idea for this series of conversations/interviews, Pat asked me if I wanted to publish it here. On OW!. So, he’s to blame. Okay. He then suggested that I interview his brother, David, too. Apparently, David has done his fair share of travelling and experiencing life. I said, why not do them together. He said, cool. So, here we are. Remember, it’s all his fault.
Ladies & Germs, I give you, The King Brothers.
JM – So, Baltimore.
WTF do I know about Baltimore?
John Waters, the film director and his colourful cast of characters. That’s it.
He certainly paints a pretty picture of the place.
Is it as full of freaks as he describes it?
What lends a place to be like this?
PK – Yes, it’s full of freaks, but not always like he describes it! I once overheard a man in a coffeehouse here say, “Baltimore has more crazy people per square mile than any other city in America.” I don’t know if that’s true, but, living here gives you the feeling that it might be true, which is good enough for me.
I’ve only actually been in the city limits for less than a year, though. So I’m still getting to know the city. Dave and I are actually from a bunch of places but the two we grew up in most were Upstate NY and Birmingham, Alabama.
So Jason, what’s it like living near Paris? Americans have a very romantic view of the place. When I think of Paris I think of Henry Miller, Artaud, Jarry. A different kind of romantic, I think.
And Dave, you keep wandering about the country. Do you think you’ll ever find a place to settle down?
JM – Like all capital cities, Paris thinks that it and only it exists. Same with London, Toyko, Bangkok etc, and so a massive egoism goes hand in hand with it. And, you know, the buildings are pleasant. But I find there to be an almighty general stilfing of creativity here. They are suspicious of anything new. Of change. Strange but true. The average French mentality seems to be one of conformity and comfort. People here are very politically defined. I wonder if that may be the reason why. I have always had a hard time with politics and art.
DK – For myself I know very little of Baltimore other than driving to the harbor, which is the touristy place to go. I’ve passed through the red light district once which I think Baltimore may be one of the few U.S cities that can say they truly have a red light district.
As for me ever settling down? Well I hope so. I’ve been from one coast to the next and lived in small towns and large cities. It has been a trip truly worth living and I’m glad I’ve been all over. This life is too short to never venture out and explore what it has for us.
JM – Damn those red light districts …
How’re you fellas feeling about this decade, what with the financial(or virtual) crisis and then the economic (or real) one?
Is it really noticable where you are?
Here in France, things such as banks, lending, and jobs are really well regulated and protected. I mean, it takes at least three months to make anyone redundant. And they get 70% of their salary for two years paid by the fucking government! (as well as five weeks paid holidays …) The national debt, of course, is another issue entirely.
DK – I still spend and work just like I have always done.
Who gives a shit if you lose your job?
There are still a million more out there. I think too many people are too proud and refuse to do something that is below them. I say shut up and flip some damn burgers, save money, rely on yourself and smile. Too much scare tactics from the media that’s what I say. Work hard play hard you know the same old cliches. Just ignore the financial crisis and eventually it will all go away. Right?
JM – “rely on yourself and smile”
David, you are a man after my own heart. And as for doing shitty jobs in shitty times, absolutely. You do what you have to do to get through and it is always fun to prove the bastards wrong! Hell, if it all goes wrong, we are going to die one day anyway.
There’s a popular T-shirt slogan in England:
Drink beer. smoke tabs. (cigarettes)
You could be hit by a bus tomorrow.
PK – What are tabs? I like tabs of acid. And the red light district….heh…let us not go there and dredge up pre-marital memories of money I could have saved…..
Well, I like “Rely on yourself and smile too,” and that really seems to sum Dave up. I wish I could be that way. Some days I’m filled with joy and others, I’m staring into the void. I wish I could enjoy life as much as David.
Since I’m about to have my mind melted on mushrooms, I think it might be a good idea to talk about drugs. What do you guys think about them? I think we’re all reasonably far away from those years where they consumed our entire waking lives, so we have a better perspective on it. Personally, I’ve always liked psychedelics but I’ve always been annoyed at those spiritual hippie types who think psychedelics open us to a new “spiritual” dimension. I remember a friend once telling me that he “saw god by the stop sign.” I remember thinking that he should probably just relax and have some fun.
JM - “Psychedelic” comes from the Greek for “mind/soul revealing” and I think that’s what such drugs do. I’m with Pat, always liked tripping, wasn’t so much into the uppers or downers. Although the best trip I ever had was on pure Special K smuggled in from Cambodia(at the time, you could buy it in pharmacies over there), it was so good that I do not think I would ever try it again.
Put it this way, I became snow. *ahem*
I believe that ALL drugs should be legalized, but that’s a different debate.
DK - Well you know me Pat. I’m always a pretty open minded guy. Drugs I believe are everyone’s choice to pursue or not to pursue. Sort of like happiness. Sorry had to throw that in there. I am glad that the days of getting high and seeing crazy acid trips are over. Yet I still don’t mind a good drink or a good set of shrooms every now and then. My body does not fix itself so fast as the good old days of being a teenager. And drugs definitely cannot find god for you cause I’ve looked everywhere and I don’t think he’s gonna show up.
PK – Ha! Maybe you need to telegraph him. Maybe he hasn’t caught up to modern technology!
DK – Well on that same note what is your take on spirituallity for the modern world? Does it have a place or is god old and in need of replacing?
Do we lose our morality without some “other being” guiding us?
JM – As for the “god” thing, well, it’s like the graffiti:
God is dead – Nietzsche.
Nietzsche is dead – God.
There is more and more scientific evidence that shows that the religious or spiritual impulse is evolutionarily hard-wired into us. Those with religion do tend to live longer. We are trapped with it. This does not mean that it is evidence for a creator being, look at Buddhism or Jainism, they are so-called religions without a god. And, no, we do not lose our “morality” if we have no god. Again, it is hard-wired into us.
What I do think is that every society needs a mythology, something that has a way of explaining things metaphorically, something that can unify. Myths are more “spiritually” truthful than science.
Our obsession with truth is a Christian obsession. That’s why they fucked themselves, they believe that everything in their holy book is historical fact instead of a myth designed to guide.
DK - I was having this same conversation with my wife about god and morality. That’s why I asked. I tend to agree with you Jason that we have our morals hard-wired into us. How else would people from opposite sides of the world that have never met still have the same fundamental morals?
But I tend to see spirituality as a necessary part of our existence. Not to explain why we are here because why should you care, you are already here, but to guide us and strengthen our moral character.
Everyone needs a good drug every now and then. So legalize em and let people be people. As long as you do no harm to another person you should be able to do as you please.
JM – I find it very difficult to use words like religion or spirituality without coming out in a rash. My old man was/is very religious and orthodox religion has always been a bit of sore point with me. I lost my faith when I was eight.
This does not mean I reject everything. Atheists can be as rigid and dull as believers. I mean, I’ve had what I describe as “numinous” experiences. I just go my own way with it. Although I do believe that we are animals and therefore our society’s (humanistic) hubris really pisses me off.
PK - Dave, I didn’t know that about you. I thought you were a good ol’ atheist. Must have been having the kids, eh?
I think it would be fun to create a religion. Like, maybe I write a book and some culture somewhere decides that it’s actually a literal revelation from God. Yes, I think I would like that.
Other than that, I’m basically a materialist. There’s no evidence that anything exists beyond the material world, ghost hunting shows excluded, of course.
So, what was the last book you guys read that you just couldn’t put down?
JM - That would be “Haunted”, the short story collection by Chuck Palanhuik.
That guy is one sick and frighteningly intelligent puppy.
A real iconoclast.
DK – It’s kinda funny but I’m really into Taekwondo right now and I keep reading biographies and histories of Taekwondo. The little things that keep us entertained. I don’t know the last time I read anything other than non fiction. My main three topics lately have been Zen, Martial Arts, and Libertarianism. I think that about sums up my daily thoughts.
JM - David,
Get your hands on 101 Zen Stories collected by Paul Reps, it’ll tell more about Zen than any academic book can.
I used to visit Zen monasteries in Britain and Japan, just to go and talk with the monks and meditate. I’ve been practising on and off for nigh on twenty years. I ain’t a Buddhist and I’m still one pissed off curmudgeon but it seems to … give me some equilibrium. Some time to myself.
Ain’t found enlightenment yet though … maybe it’s in my boot.
And you Pat?
PK – I just finished reading Colin Wilson’s book, Super Consciousness. It’s sort of a short summation (only 200 pages, which is extremely short for him) of his philosophy. I can’t get into his supernatural/occult stuff, but I think he’s on to something with the whole peak experiences thing, and especially his observations about the “robot world” that most people live in. I tore through that book in two days, which is really fast for me since I’m a pretty slow reader.
Dave, I’m curious: you’re obviously an articulate guy, how come you’ve never written anything? I think you’d be good at it.
DK – I think that I just lose my train of thought too quickly. My mind wanders and my focus goes in thirty different directions. Plus the kids are loud. Maybe one of these days I’ll write but for now I prefer to immerse myself in someone else’s writing and just read.
JM - One last question, fellows,
It seems like every dose of hard times brings with it a renaissance of culture. Where do you think it’s coming from this time around?
And thanks be to you.
PK – Thank you, Jason. This has been fun.
Like Surrealism, the Beats, etc, my hope is that the new culture will come from the ground up. Now, that means that there will be plenty of sell out, misinterpretation and mindlessness. But I think it will affect the culture positively. If it comes to pass. I think the time is right, Jason for guys like me and you and Tim Hall. Very soon. At least I hope. That would be nice.
DK – Yes, I too had an enjoyable time talking with both of you.
I do not know where this renaissance will come from but I too hope that it spawns from the underground. From people who truly love the arts and the world and hope to share their thoughts with the world. I am envious of those who can start a moment for no other reason than to see the world grow and move forward. So where ever it starts be a part of it and share your passion.
Pat King’s collection of short stories can be bought here : THEREDNECKKAFKAANDOTHERSTORIES
Jeez, some of the coolest guys you meet just happen to be named Dave. Oh, and Pat. Don’t forget about Pat.
Damn, that was a fun read. Where you been hiding Dave all this time, Pat?
He hides in his cave tending to the little ‘uns. He only just a couple of weeks ago got a facebook account! I don’t even know his regular e-mail. Wish him luck though, middle of August he goes to Kuwait for six months to load airplanes for twelve hours a day!